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1994-11-13
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Date: Mon, 30 May 94 04:30:02 PDT
From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group <tcp-group@ucsd.edu>
Errors-To: TCP-Group-Errors@UCSD.Edu
Reply-To: TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #104
To: tcp-group-digest
TCP-Group Digest Mon, 30 May 94 Volume 94 : Issue 104
Today's Topics:
Gracillis
Mail failure
More RSPF Help needed.....
TCP-Group Digest V94 #103
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Send Replies or notes for publication to: <TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu>.
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Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.
Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives".
We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 May 94 10:41:37 CDT
From: route66@ddl.chi.il.us (System Administrator)
Subject: Gracillis
To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu
I have been looking into buying Gracillis for 9600 baud packet. Has
anyone ever tried it..and if so, how is it on TCP/IP?
Also, I'd rather not spend $1,000 for Gracillis new..by chance does
anyone out there have a used one setup they wanna get rid of?
Thanks,
Greg Kaiser - N9TOL
------------------------------
Date: 29 May 1994 09:04:09 EST
From: "POSTMASTER" <HARRIS.POSTMAS8@IC1D.HARRIS.COM>
Subject: Mail failure
To: TCP-Group@UCSD.EDU
Date: Sat, 28 May 94 04:56:05 CST
From: Jack Snodgrass <kf5mg@kf5mg.ampr.org>
Subject: More RSPF Help needed.....
To: tcp-group mailling list <tcp-group@UCSD.EDU>
We've been tearing out my hair trying to figure out how to link 2 RSPF
routers that use an IP Router to communicate. It seems like RSPF should
work and NOT require that every station in the network Run RSPF, but we
just can't figure out how to make it work.
We've got:
-------- -------- --------
kf5mg <---440---> wb5tey <---144---> k5rw
-------- -------- --------
kf5mg and k5rw are running RSPF. When either one sends out it's RSPF
broadcast, the other station can't hear it because they're on separate
networks. Is there an easy way to fix this?
We've set up and AXIP link between the two RSPF routers and set up the
routes between k5rw and kf5mg to use wb5tey. Now they can hear each others
RSPF broadcast, but the RSPF added routes are screwed up. All of k5rw's
RSPF added routes on kf5mg show that they route through k5rw on 440 instead
of wb5tey. All of kf5mg's RSPF added routes on k5rw show that they route
through kf5mg on 144 instead of wb5tey. I'm guessing that the reason the
routes are screwed up is that RSPF assumes that since it can 'hear' the
station direct ( because of the axip link ) the RSPF added routes assume
that they go direct to the remote system and don't take into account any
pre-existing routes set up between the two RSPF routers.
Next, we set up an ENCAP link in hopes that if the AXIP link was run
over the ENCAP link the RSPF added links would use the ENCAP link routes.
That didn't work either. The AXIP stuff goes over the ENCAP route, but
the RSPF added routes still ignore the IP router that's in between the two
RSPF routers.
Someone is probably going to suggest that wb5tey ( in our example ) run
RSPF. Yes... that will work, but I want/need to figure out this problem.
Once we get this working, we'll add RSPF to both of our Internet Gateways.
There's no way to get the network routers between the two gateways to run
RSPF.
Anyway.... either there is something basic that I'm missing or RSPF is
really un-usable in a standard network and I can't see how one can really
be using it. Any info/help/suggestions ( preferably working ) would be
appreciated. Thanks.
73's de Jack - kf5mg
Internet - kf5mg@kf5mg.ampr.org - 44.28.0.14
AX25net - kf5mg@kf5mg.#dfw.tx.usa.noam - home (817) 488-4386
Dialup - kf5mg@tcet.unt.edu - work (looking for)
==============================================================================
=
=== Buffalo's new area code.... 044.... "Deal with it" ==
=
==============================================================================
=
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 May 1994 16:28:01 -0400
From: goldstein@carafe.tay2.dec.com
Subject: More RSPF Help needed.....
To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu
Jack,
> We've got:
>
> -------- -------- --------
> kf5mg <---440---> wb5tey <---144---> k5rw
> -------- -------- --------
>
> kf5mg and k5rw are running RSPF. When either one sends out it's RSPF
>broadcast, the other station can't hear it because they're on separate
>networks. Is there an easy way to fix this?
Not an easy way...
This would have been solved fairly easily had RSPF2.2 been implemented.
RSPF2.2 is a spec that makes clear that "normal" IP rules of "subnets"
do NOT apply, and therefore you can create adjacencies using any kind
of lower-layer (subnetwork in the OSIRM sense) connection and RSPF will
use them if appropriate. But the code in NOS does not override IP's
routing function, and treats RSPF node groups as IP subnets, which
they ain't. I don't know what hackery has been done recently to allow
faking things, but it's all half-way.
Note that RSPF was designed to run on routers, but not be needed on
end stations. Your example is of course the opposite, and tries to
use intellgent end systems to get past a lack of intelligent routers.
Perfectly sensible but since I don't personally _use_ any of the RSPF
variants currently implemented, I can't tell you what works.
If somebody would take the 2.2 spec and really implement it... Naaah,
we're hams. Why do it right when a quick and dirty early hack is
available? Why should routing be different from the "202" modems? :-(
(sig)> Buffalo's new area code.... 044.... "Deal with it"
I must be missing something...
fred k1io
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 May 94 11:21:03 CST
From: fchavarr@udgserv.cencar.udg.mx (Fco. J. Chavarria -POLITEC)
To: tcp-group@UCSD.EDU
unsub fchavarr@udgserv.cencar.udg.mx
------------------------------
End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #103
******************************
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 May 94 05:48:00 -0000
From: mikebw@bilow.bilow.uu.ids.net (Mike Bilow)
Subject: More RSPF Help needed.....
To: tcp-group@UCSD.EDU
Cc: kf5mg@kf5mg.ampr.org
JS> We've been tearing out my hair trying to figure out
JS> how to link 2 RSPF
JS> routers that use an IP Router to communicate. It seems like RSPF should
JS> work and NOT require that every station in the network Run RSPF, but we
JS> just can't figure out how to make it work.
I understand your problem exactly. There really are no easy ways to do what
your want, but it should be possible. However, it is an involved thing and I
don't want to sit here typing away nonsense before I think it through. A lot
of these kinds of problems are a result of features in the formal RSPF spec
remaining unimplemented.
RSPF was intended to function as an interior routing protocol within the
autonomous system which is Amprnet. The expectation was that all routers would
be running the routing protocol. This is not an unreasonable expectation, and
it applies pretty much equally to any other routing protocol besides RSPF. End
nodes which have no routing responsibility are not usually expected to run
RSPF, but that is a very different thing.
-- Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 09:05:19 CET
From: "Jack Stiekema" <JACK@vic1.victron.nl>
Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #103
To: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group <tcp-group@ucsd.edu>
>> We've been tearing out my hair trying to figure out how to link 2 RSPF
>>routers that use an IP Router to communicate. It seems like RSPF should
Maybe a silly question,
but what is RSPF?
Kind regards,
Jack Stiekema
Product Manager Connectivity
+----------------------------------------------------+
| Victron bv POB 31 9700 AA Groningen Holland |
| Phone: +31 50 446222 Fax: +31 50 424107 |
| Email: jack@victron.nl Internet: 193.78.6.6 |
| Home: +31 5980 80498 pe0mot@pe0mot.ampr.org |
+----------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 10:43:38 MET
From: betaille@lurvax.lure.ups.circe.fr
Subject: unsub
To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu
unsub betaille@lure.ups.circe.fr tcp-group
------------------------------
End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #104
******************************